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New Display Part of “FOOD: Transforming the American Table”

 

Boulder, Colo.  – The Smithsonian’s National Museum of American History will explore the history and industry of brewing in the United States in a new showcase located within the “FOOD: Transforming the American Table” exhibition beginning Oct. 25.

“FOOD: Transforming the American Table” is an existing, permanent exhibition that explores the history of food and eating in the United States since 1950. The exhibition’s fall update will highlight new stories about changes in food itself and how Americans produce, prepare and consume food and drink. One of four major new sections is “Brewing a Revolution.

The history of brewing in the U.S. is a story of immigration, urban change, technological innovation and evolving consumer tastes. During the nation’s early years, Americans drank ales, mostly brewed by women and enslaved people, at home. The arrival of European professional brewers—nearly all men—in the 1800s created a nation of lager lovers. While Prohibition in 1920 banned the production of intoxicating beverages, the story of American beer was far from over.

Visitors will see artifacts, archival materials and photographs that originated in the homebrewing and microbrewing movements of California and Colorado in the 1960s through 1980s—the beginning of the craft beer “revolution.”

The “Brewing a Revolution” showcases are the work of curator Theresa McCulla, who has led the museum’s American Brewing History Initiative since 2017. She has been mining the existing collections and traveling across the country researching, collecting, preserving and sharing this history to expand the collections with a focus on brewing in the 20th and 21st centuries.

“The artifacts featured in this new display convey histories of innovation, creativity and risk, as well as deep pride and pleasure in the processes of brewing and drinking beer in the United States,” said McCulla. “Beer is a thread that runs throughout the fabric of our nation’s history and culture.”

Part of the Smithsonian Food History project, the museum initiated the American Brewing History Initiative in 2016 with funding from the Brewers Association, the Boulder, Colorado-based not-for-profit trade association dedicated to small and independent American brewers. The Brewers Association recently funded an extension of the initiative through 2022.

“The craft brewing revolution in America has had a profound social, cultural and economic impact on this country,” said Bob Pease, president and CEO of the Brewers Association. “America is a beer nation, and we are honored to support this effort and work with the National Museum of American History to chronicle and showcase the significant achievements small and independent brewers and homebrewers have made throughout our nation’s history.”

A wooden home-brewing spoon that belonged to Charlie Papazian, past president of the Brewers Association and founder of the Association of Brewers, a microscope used by Fritz Maytag at Anchor Brewing Co. and the travel notebook that helped inspire Kim Jordan and Jeff Lebesch to found New Belgium Brewing Co. are among the artifacts on view. McCulla has also recorded oral histories with more than 75 members of the brewing industry.

More information about the initiative and beer history at the museum is available at  http://s.si.edu/BrewHistory.

The Last Call: Brewing History After-Hours

In conjunction with the exhibition opening and as part of the three-day Smithsonian Food History Weekend, Nov. 7–9, McCulla will moderate a conversation among several key figures in the history of craft beer to reflect on beer’s past, present and future during “The Last Call: Brewing History After-Hours” event Friday, Nov. 8. Participating are Maytag, former owner of Anchor Brewing Co.; Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.; Papazian, founder of the Association of Brewers; and Michael Lewis, professor emeritus of Food Science and Technology at the University of California, Davis.

The following breweries will pour beer tastings: Dogfish Head Craft Brewery, Milton, Delaware, 60 Minute IPA and Slightly Mighty IPA; Anchor Brewing Co., San Francisco, Anchor Steam Beer and Anchor Porter; Sierra Nevada Brewing Co., Chico, California, and Mills River, North Carolina, Pale Ale and Celebration Fresh Hop IPA; Raleigh Brewing Company, Raleigh, North Carolina, New Albion Ale and Hell Yes Ma’am Belgian Golden Ale; and New Belgium Brewing Co., Fort Collins, Colorado, and Asheville, North Carolina, Fat Tire Amber Ale and Voodoo Ranger IPA.

Tickets for The Last Call are $45 for beer tastings, appetizers and a one-night-only display of brewing-history objects out of storage, including recent acquisitions. To purchase tickets and for more information, visit https://s.si.edu/LastCall.

Leadership support for “FOOD: Transforming the American Table” is made possible by Warren and Barbara Winiarski (Winiarski Family Foundation), the Brewers Association, the Julia Child Foundation for Gastronomy and the Culinary Arts, the Land O’Lakes Foundation, the 2018 Food History Gala Supporters and History Channel.

The National Museum of American History explores the infinite richness and complexity of American history. The museum helps people understand the past in order to make sense of the present and shape a more humane future. For more information about the museum, visit http://americanhistory.si.edu. Explore the museum’s social media on Twitter (@amhistorymuseum), Facebook (@National Museum of American History) and Instagram (@amhistorymuseum). #SmithsonianFood and #BeerHistory

The museum is located on Constitution Avenue, between 12th and 14th streets N.W., and is open daily from 10 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. (closed Dec. 25). Admission is free. For Smithsonian information, the public may call (202) 633-1000.

About the Brewers Association

The Brewers Association (BA) is the not-for-profit trade association dedicated to small and independent American brewers, their beers and the community of brewing enthusiasts. The BA represents 5,000-plus U.S. breweries. The BA’s independent craft brewer seal is a widely adopted symbol that differentiates beers by small and independent craft brewers. The BA organizes events including the World Beer Cup®Great American Beer Festival®Craft Brewers Conference® & BrewExpo America®SAVOR: An American Craft Beer & Food ExperienceHomebrew ConTMNational Homebrew Competition and American Craft Beer Week®. The BA publishes The New Brewer® magazine, and Brewers Publications® is the leading publisher of brewing literature in the U.S. Beer lovers are invited to learn more about the dynamic world of craft beer at CraftBeer.com® and about homebrewing via the BA’s American Homebrewers Association® and the free Brew Guru® mobile app. Follow us on FacebookTwitter and Instagram.

The Brewers Association is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, gender, religion, age, disability, political beliefs, sexual orientation, or marital/familial status. The BA complies with provisions of Executive Order 11246 and the rules, regulations, and relevant orders of the Secretary of Labor.

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charlie papazian

PHOTO © BREWERS ASSOCIATION

Boulder, CO —The Brewers Association (BA)—the not-for-profit trade group dedicated to promoting and protecting America’s small and independent craft brewers—today announced that founder and past president Charlie Papazian will exit the Brewers Association on January 23, 2019, marking his 70th birthday and 40 years building the craft brewing community and inspiring brewers and beer lovers around the world.

“We are all here today because of Charlie Papazian,” said Bob Pease, president and CEO, Brewers Association. “His influence on the homebrewing and craft brewing community is immeasurable. Who could have predicted that a simple wooden spoon, ingenuity and passion would spawn a community of more than one million homebrewers and 6,000 small and independent U.S. craft breweries.”

Charlie Papazian, founder of the American Homebrewers Association (AHA) and the Association of Brewers, set the stage for homebrewing back in the 1970s. His expertise and friendly tone assured people that making good beer was possible at home. He stressed his catchphrase of “Relax. Don’t worry. Have a homebrew” in his first book, The Complete Joy of Homebrewing and inspired millions to pick up the hobby of homebrewing.

In 1978, Papazian, along with Charlie Matzen, formed the AHA in Boulder, CO. They published the first issue of Zymurgy magazine, announcing the new organization, publicizing the federal legalization of homebrewing and calling for entries in the first AHA National Homebrew Competition. Today, the AHA is more than 46,000 members strong.

In 1982, Papazian debuted the Great American Beer Festival (GABF) in Boulder, CO. Now in its 37th year, GABF is the largest ticketed beer festival in North America with more than 60,000 attendees annually and its accompanying competition is one of the most coveted awards in the brewing industry.

The following year, the Association of Brewers was organized to include the AHA and the Institute for Brewing and Fermentation Studies to assist the emerging microbrewery movement in US. By 2005, the Association of Brewers and the Brewers’ Association of America merged to form the Brewers Association.

When asked, “Charlie, did you ever imagine that beer would become this?” His answer is always yes.

“I had a playful vision that there would be a homebrewer in every neighborhood and a brewery in every town. But what I did not imagine, couldn’t imagine, never considered, was the impact that craft brewing would have on our culture, economy and American life,” mused Papazian.

Papazian will spend his final year at the BA completing many projects, including a craft brewing history archive project. The archive will house 40 years of craft beer history in the form of more than 100,000 publications, photographs, audiotapes, films, videos, and documents—including 140 video interviews of the pioneers of American craft brewing—and will be accessible to researchers via the BA. He will also deliver the keynote address at the AHA’s 40th annual National Homebrew Conference, “Hombrew Con,” in Portland, OR on Thursday, June 28.

Brewers and homebrewers are invited to share their well wishes and Charlie Papazian stories on the AHA and BA Facebook pages.

 

Boulder, CO — The 2017 Great American Beer Festival (GABF) competition awarded 293 medals to some of the best commercial breweries in the United States, plus three GABF Pro-Am medals to teams of homebrewers paired with professionals. Presented by the Brewers Association (BA), GABF is the largest commercial beer competition in the world and the premier symbol of brewing excellence.

gabf medals

View the 2017 winners

In a ceremony at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver, award-winning breweries received prestigious gold, silver and bronze medals in 98 beer categories covering 161 different beer styles (including all subcategories), establishing the best examples of each style in the country.

Winners were chosen out of 7,923 competition entries from 2,217 breweries in 50 states plus Washington, D.C. (a 15 percent and 24 percent increase respectively from the 7,301 entries and 1,783 breweries in 2016).

The competition took place in six sessions over a period of three days and was judged by 276 beer experts from 13 countries, including the U.S. In addition to commercial brewery entries, the judging panel also evaluated 118 Pro-Am entries. The competition was made possible with the help of 365 volunteers.

 

2017 BREWERY AND BREWER OF THE YEAR AWARDS

PACKAGING BREWERIES

Very Small Brewing Company and Brewmaster of the Year | < 1,000 BBLS

Sponsored by Brewers Supply Group

On Tour Brewing Co., Chicago, IL and Mark Poffenberger & Mark Legenza

 

Small Brewing Company and Brewmaster of the Year | 1,000 – 14,999 BBLS

Sponsored by O-I

Sunriver Brewing, Sunriver, OR and Sunriver Brewing Team

 

Mid-Size Brewing Company and Brewmaster of the Year | 15,000 – 6,000,000 BBLS

Sponsored by MicroStar Logistics

Saint Arnold Brewing Co., Houston, TX and Saint Arnold Brew Crew

 

BREWPUBS

Small Brewpub and Brewmaster of the Year | < 750 BBLS

Sponsored by Briess Malt & Ingredients

Rockford Brewing Co., Rockford, MI and Rockford Brewing Company

 

Mid-Size Brewpub and Brewmaster of the Year | 750 – 1,500 BBLS

Sponsored by Brewers Supply Group

Moon River Brewing Co., Savannah, GA and Moon River Brewing Company

 

Large Brewpub and Brewmaster of the Year | 1,500+ BBLS

Sponsored by The Country Malt Group

The Austin Beer Garden Brewing Co., Austin, TX and Amos Swifty Kim

 

LARGE BREWERIES OR MULTIPLE LOCATION BREWERIES

Brewery Group and Brewmaster of the Year

Sponsored by Beer Institute

Melvin Brewing, Alpine, WY and Melvin Brewing

 

gabf medals 

 

OVERALL COMPETITION HIGHLIGHTS

  • Most medals won by a single brewery: Saint Arnold Brewing Co. (3)
  • Top three states by ratio of medals to entries by state:

o   West Virginia – 12 entries, 2 medals

o   Wyoming – 46 entries, 5 medals

o   Connecticut – 39 entries, 4 medals

  • First-time GABF competition entrants (self-identified during the registration process) numbered 584. Of those first-time entering breweries, 36 won medals.

 

STYLE CATEGORIES 

Since 2002, the most-entered category has been American-Style India Pale Ale (IPA), which saw 408 entries in 2017 compared to 312 entries in 2016. The top five entered categories and number of entries per category were:

  • Category 60 American-Style India Pale Ale (408 entries)
  • Category 61 Imperial India Pale Ale (221 entries)
  • Category 58 American-Style Pale Ale (199 entries)
  • Category 59 American-Style Strong Pale Ale (182 entries)
  • Category 29 Wood- and Barrel-Aged Strong Beer (175 entries)

 

The winners in the most-entered (that is, the most competitive) categories were:

 Category 60 American-Style India Pale Ale (408 entries)

Gold: Prairie Madness, Hailstorm Brewing Co., Tinley Park, IL

Silver: Gold Digger IPA, Auburn Alehouse, Auburn, CA

Bronze: Breakside IPA, Breakside Brewery & Taproom, Milwaukie, OR

 

Category 61 Imperial India Pale Ale (221 entries)

Gold: Manta Ray, Ballast Point Brewing Co., San Diego, CA

Silver: Lupulin River, Knee Deep Brewing Co., Auburn, CA

Bronze: Chux, Danville Brewing Co., Danville, CA

 

Category 58 American-Style Pale Ale (199 entries)

Gold: Monterey Street, Central Coast Brewing Co., San Luis Obispo, CA

Silver: Mosaic Pale Ale, Lynnwood Brewing Concern – Production Facility; Raleigh, NC

Bronze: Triple Tail, SweetWater Brewing Co., Atlanta, GA

 

Category 59 American-Style Strong Pale Ale (182 entries)

Gold: Hubert MPA, Melvin Brewing, Alpine, WY

Silver: Wolfback Ridge, Headlands Brewing Co., Mill Valley, CA

Bronze: Breakside Stay West, Breakside Brewery + Beer Hall, Portland, OR

 

Category 29 Wood- and Barrel-Aged Strong Beer (175 entries)

Gold: Hurly Burly Port Barrel Aged Barleywine, Out of Bounds Brewing Co., Rocklin, CA

Silver: Woods Monk, Odyssey Beerwerks, Arvada, CO

Bronze: Barrel Aged Barleywine, Charleville Vineyard & Microbrewery, Sainte Genevieve, MO

 

2017 GREAT AMERICAN BEER FESTIVAL PRO-AM COMPETITION

Sponsored by Briess Malt & Ingredients Co., The Country Malt Group, Yakima Chief-Hopunion and White Labs

Gold, silver and bronze medals were also awarded in the GABF Pro-Am competition, which pairs homebrewers with professional brewers, who scale up the award-winning homebrew recipes. The medal winners, including the winning professional brewers and American Homebrewers Association (AHA) member homebrewers are:

  • Gold: Just Another Pretty Face, Denver Beer Co., Denver, CO; Brewmaster: Jason Buehler and Denver Beer Company Brewing Team; Homebrewer: Doug Thiel
  • Silver: Lichtenhainer, Black Bottle Brewery, Fort Collins, CO; Brewmaster: Black Bottle Scuba Squad;  Homebrewer: Daniel Tomkins
  • Bronze: Eluxansis, Odell Brewing Co., Fort Collins, CO; Brewmaster:  Odell Brew Team; Homebrewer: Mark Boelman

 

2017 GREAT AMERICAN BEER FESTIVAL & COMPETITION STATISTICS

  • 36th anniversary of the festival; 31st edition of the GABF competition
  • Over 800 breweries in the festival hall
  • 3,900+ beers served at the festival
  • 60,000 attendees
  • 4,308 volunteers (festival and competition combined)
  • 2,217 breweries in the competition from 50 states plus Washington, D.C.
  • 266 medal-winning breweries
  • 293 total medals awarded
  • 7,923 beers judged (not including 118 Pro-Am competition entries)
  • 98 beer categories covering 161 different beer styles judged, plus the Pro-Am competition
  • 276 judges from 13 different countries
  • Average number of competition beers entered in each category: 81
  • Category with the highest number of entries: American-Style India Pale Ale
  • A gold medal was not awarded in the Fruited American-Style Sour Ale category

 

homebrewers associationBoulder, Colo. – Love beer? And your nearby brewery? Celebrating local, independent breweries, the American Homebrewers Association (AHA)—the leading community for homebrewers—today unveiled its inaugural 50-State Commercial Beer Clone Recipes Guide. The AHA compiled the list, which features recipes scaled down to 5 to 10 gallon batches, after reaching out to breweries nationwide.

“Just about every one of the 1.2 million people in the country who brew their own beer, has considered making a career of brewing,” said Gary Glass, Director, American Homebrewers Association. “Many professional craft brewers got started as homebrewers in their kitchens and backyards—and by sharing these recipes, we are thrilled to spread the love of beer and the art of making it.”

From Pliny the Elder—which was voted the #1 beer in America by the AHA’s members from 2009 to 2016—made by Russian River, based in Santa Rosa, Calif., to Two Hearted Ale—which dethroned Pliny the Elder in 2017—made by Bell’s, based in Comstock, Mich., many beloved beers, both established and up-and-coming, are listed in the commercial beer recipes guide.

“With both the craft beer industry and the hobby of homebrewing continuing to expand nationwide, these recipes offer beer lovers the opportunity to make their favorite local brews at home,” said Glass.

Access the Commercial Beer Clone Recipes Guide, which features all 50 recipes, here.

To find additional information on local breweries, beer bars and homebrew supply shops all over the country, download the AHA’s Brew Guru™ mobile app, available on the App Store and Google Play.

About the American Homebrewers Association:

The American Homebrewers Association has worked on behalf of the homebrewing community since 1978 and celebrates a membership of more than 46,000 homebrewers. The American Homebrewers Association (AHA) organizes events including Homebrew Con and the National Homebrew Competition. The AHA also publishes Zymurgy magazine and offers the Brew Guru™ mobile app. The AHA is part of the Brewers Association, whose Brewers Publications division is the largest publisher of contemporary and relevant brewing literature for today’s craft brewers and homebrewers.

 

ADA – Veteran homebrewers, novices, and people-who-just-want-to-drink-beer-outside alike are invited to the first Learn To Homebrew Day hosted at Gravel Bottom Craft Brewery and Supply.

The brewery and homebrew supply shop is bringing the American Homebrewer’s Association (AHA) event to Ada Nov. 7.

The free event will last from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. and include at least nine industry professionals hosting discussions about their specialties. The topics are as broad as the whole process of homebrewing and as specific as yeast health.

Nine homebrewers have also been invited to bring their equipment on premise to demonstrate their personal processes. Throughout the day, the brewers will make the same recipe on their own systems as attendees look on.

“Some of these guys go far out; it’s pretty cool to see,” said Chrissy Walker, homebrew supply manager at Gravel Bottom. “Then you have other people who are just going to bring their little burner and a little pot.”

In addition to the educational parts of the event, attendees will be able to enter a raffle and the store will be hosting a one-day fall sale on homebrewing equipment.

Walker emphasized that the event isn’t just for veteran and novice homebrewers—it’s for anyone who wants to know more about beer.

“I think the more knowledge we can get out there on how to properly taste beer and what goes into brewing beer, the more you’re going to enjoy it,” said Walker.

Matt Michiels, owner of Gravel Bottom, said he felt the goals of AHA’s Learn to Homebrew event mirror Gravel Bottom’s mission statement.

“That’s really what we’re trying to do. Bring to people the experience of brewing, and a creative environment where you can learn about the sport,” said Michiels.

“That’s how it all started in my backyard—brewing beer with my friends and drinking the beer,” he said. “I’m excited to have that environment here.”

Whether they go to learn about the art (or science, or “sport,” as Michiels would have it) of homebrewing or just to enjoy the camaraderie in the brewing community, Walker has one warning for potential attendees:

“Caution: brewing does cause more friends,” she laughed. “I’m gonna throw that out there.”

GRAND RAPIDS — While the American Homebrewers Association’s National Homebrewers Conference was certainly a win for West Michigan, it was even more so for a group of local home brewers.

Jeff Carlson (PrimeTime Brewers), Nick Rodammer (Brewsquitos Homebrewing Club) and Kathy Troxell (Rivertown Homebrewers) were three home brewers who took home medals at the event, for three very different brews.

As we sat on a deck in July, enjoying the brewers’ winning drinks, the three medalists began to talk about their approach to home brewing.

For Troxell, she was more than pleased by the results. She won a silver medal in her first-ever competition with her Cherry Tart Kiss Melomel.

“I never expected to place in the finals — this was my first mead and my first competition,” said Troxell. “I was so surprised and overwhelmed. I didn’t believe my name had been announced. The guys at the table had to tell me three times I had won the Silver.”

But for all three home brewers, it’s not just about winning — it’s about what they learn in the process.

“You want some feedback, it’s probably the best advice to get,” said Carlson.

The long-time brewer took home two medals at the conference — a gold in the Specialty Cider and Perry category, and a bronze in the Standard Cider and Perry Category.

All of them agreed that winning solidifies the fact that a home brewer can be capable of creating something on par with some of the area’s best beer, cider and mead.

“My goal every time I make a beer that I’m serious about is, in my mind I want it to come out as good as anything you buy at a pub or in a store,” said Rodammer, who won gold with his Rodtoberfest in the European Amber Lager category. “Oktoberfest is probably my favorite style, which is why I was so happy to win a medal in it.”

aha conference

GRAND RAPIDS — We had a great time throughout the American Homebrewers Association’s National Homebrewers Conference held at DeVos Place last week. Below are links to all of our coverage, as well as some of our favorite photo moments. Photos by Steph Harding.

MittenBrew Coverage

THURSDAY: Expo

FRIDAY: Keynote

FRIDAY: Club Night

GRAND RAPIDS — “1 in every 200 Americans homebrew.”

Charlie Papazian, quietly unassuming, gently humorous, clad in a hawaiian shirt, shares from the stage. This number has implications. “You — homebrewers — have ignited and inspired the world of craft brewing, in America and elsewhere.”

Grand Rapids, especially and Michigan, too. The homebrew culture feeds the craft brew culture in this city and in the state. “There’s a special spirit here,” says Charlie as he introduces the 2014 AHA Conference Keynote Address speakers, Dave Engbers and Mike Stevens, co-owners of Founders Brewing Company.

The pair shares their story, which is not only a story of a Grand Rapids renaissance in the craft beer world, but the story of small brewers all over the country, former homebrewers turned pro, or a story to provide inspiration for those who are looking to do so.

A short video is played, and familiar faces to MittenBrew readers pop up on the big screen. What is a home brewer?

‘Cheap.’

‘Opinionated.’

‘Intense.’

‘Likes to party.’

‘Someone who pushes the boundaries of the craft beer movement.’

Rockford Brewing, New Holland, Brewery Vivant — all these guys — started as homebrewers. And that’s what Mike accentuates and shares with a crowd of 4,000.

“The craft beer industry is built on nothing more than a bunch of homebrewers. We are real, authentic, and you can take that away or fake it.”

Founders beer is poured all around for attendees, as volunteers hold high pitchers of the commemorative AHA beer, a Rye Oak Aged IPA, and walk through the crowd. Mike and Dave talk about their personal journey, and what the homebrewing community means to the craft beer industry, right now and in the future.

Tips for going pro

Engbers sips on his beer. “You must be driven, committed. It will take over your life. You’ll make the leap, you’ll go all in. Be unconventional, a little reckless. You’ll make some beautiful mistakes.”

Feed your passion, make quality products, be unique and find your voice, what works for you, be true to yourself and your product will follow. And be professional, it will allow you to grow. “Understand the business side of this business,” adds Stevens.

Founders almost failed. Engbers and Stevens were college friends, and talked about opening a brewery someday as a dream, not a reality. The ‘what ifs’ were too much to bear, and they decided they had to go for it. Growth was slow, non existent, really. They made beers for the masses — wheats, ambers, simple and not always that good. Bills accumulated and compounded, until they reached a point where they owed half a million dollars in six days or they would have to shut their doors. Long story short — they found the money. And they learned.

They learned that they needed to brew for them, not for everyone else.

“So who are we?” Engbers asks the crowd. “We are passionate, genuine, we don’t compromise. We’re a bit unconventional — but whatever the fuck we’ve got going on, it works. Maybe a little bit badass — quietly badass, it’s very Midwestern. But — we are humble! Don’t tell anyone.” He smiles.

Founders. When they say ‘brewed for us’, they really mean it.

Growth happened. And happened. Moving into a new space in 2007, they started in that location with 14 employees, producing 6,127 barrels. Jump to 2014 and now they employ approximately 240 people and are making 180,000 barrels a year.

Founders wants you, the homebrewer, to continue to brew. Your experience, passion, unconventionality, and reckless experimentation are pushing the craft brew industry forward. “Brew great beer. Have fun.” Says Engbers. And Stevens. And Papazian.

What’s the takeaway after this weekend? Keep doing what you are doing. Or start doing it. Introduce someone to craft beer today. Sit down with them; find a beer they can learn to love. Share your passion. Make it their passion. Brew. Drink. Bond.
Cultivate what we’ve started, and keep it moving in the right direction, Michigan. It’s all up to you.